Monday, 8 September 2008

Some initial ideas....

I wasn’t going to do a blog post tonight as I’m about to get stuck into form for a few hours and it’s going to be a late night for me. However, at least I’ll have Andy Murray to keep me company!

I thought I’d quickly mention the feedback I’ve received. I’ve had a great response and some of the ideas have been great. Basically, most people want me to produce the best tipping site out there as well offering the analysis and tips much cheaper than any other service out there as most agree they don't represent value for money. I don’t see this as a major issue to be honest and I’ll hopefully manage to do this with a bit of luck if my figures are accurate.

Lots of you have told me to scrap the free month idea if I have a losing month and after having a think about it, I agree. The worry was that I would have very little incentive in the free month after I lose and I probably agree. In addition, no other tipster offers this form of guarantee, so why should I?

Everyone appears to like my personable approach and don’t want me to become some sort of faceless tipping service like others out there that currently exist. I really understand this comment and I agree 100%. I intend to provide the sort of personal service to subscribers that is currently not available out there at the moment to my knowledge.

Most people like the analysis as it currently is and like the analysis along with the tips. Some wouldn’t be happy with just the tips, so I’ve noted this.

Everyone commented on price and a few suggested limiting membership next month. Firstly, there is no need to limit membership. As I’ve shown many times on here, my horses are much more liable to drift than shorten. Therefore, we don’t need to worry about the number of subscribers at the moment.

The simple reason for this is that I specialise in races for exposed handicappers and the form is always in the book. Hence, people will always be willing to lay my horses. That comment applies to Bookmakers and Betfair layers. Hence, in the first few months with a small number of subscribers, we don’t need to worry about limiting membership.

With regards to price, I’m still trying to work through how many subscribers I need to make it worth my while. I’m expecting to spend 80 hours a month on form study and other admin, so I need to cover my own time and any costs associated with the service. A profit is not too important to me as long as I can cover my own time.

A few other ideas from people had included me offering one-to-one tutoring or group tutoring to people who wanted to learn to read form and select winners. People also suggested a question and answer session with me at least once a week and this sort of thing appeals to me to be honest. I wouldn’t mind getting grilled by subscribers if I select losers!

One thing that a few of you mentioned is that I need a new base for this part of The Experiment. The blog has been a great success story and whatever happens, I will continue to update the blog to document the next part of The Experiment.

However, I have also started to think about a new web page and I’ve asked someone to look into it for me. If everything goes to plan, I may have a new website for next months’ new adventure!

As you can see, I have been thinking about how next month may work and I’ve produced a little business model. I’m still working a few things out and details have still to be finalised but I’d like to take as many blog readers with me on to the next stage of the adventure. Therefore, I’d be looking at a way of getting my readers a deal whereby they pay a small amount to subscribe to my analysis and I’d hope to keep them on a smaller rate than other subscribers.

As the subscription list grows (if it does grow!), any new subscribers would be charged a higher fee and this will help to fund the lower fees of my regulars.

As I’ve said, I’m still working through it in my head but once I get somewhere, I’ll let you know.

There are around 7 possible races for me to analyse tomorrow, so it will be a late night!


NS said...

You have obviously got lots on your mind at the moment, so with a new website you'll need a name - perhaps the readers in a `Blue Peter` moment can come up with a name.

I'll start with - The Dandyman

Graeme Dand said...

lol NS....

Absolutely fantastic idea mate.

Can I please have other suggestions for a name for my new website.

Keep it clean please...

lol @ The Dandyman! Sounds like I'm running some sort of male escort service mate!


Anthony said...

Can't better that! I think you've found it!

Steve said...

God knows where you get the time to do all these posts let alone sort out the form Graeme :) Everytime I come on to read and maybe comment there's so bloody much on here it'd take forever to comment on all the points you make.

Might be an idea to split up and shorten the posts as I'm sure it puts off a few people commenting just cos they can't cover all the points you make.

steve said...

OK onto the points, you know my views on some of things you should be doing and seems they're in motion now.

Think it's a good idea you get a separate website up and running now just for any future ventures. Webspace is cheap and only costs around £3/5 a year for a domain name. Setting up sites is easy enough no more complicated than using word so don't get ripped off if you're paying someone to do it for you. It'd be a good place for you to post selections,keep updated records of p\l etc and give everything that professional feel. Just look at other pro tipsters sites out there to get an idea of layouts etc. I came across who used to tip on the betfair forum but now's selling tips - seems a nice easy layout not overcomplicated etc.

re:free months , yep knock it on the head no need for it, few others do it, offering it is almost as if your saying you'd expect a losing month.

Of course people like the personable approach, why wouldn't they. Thing is people feel they know you as they're reading a blog here not buying tips. You'd need to get a much more professional approach when selling tips, just look at the succesful tipsters out there and copy their model no need to reinvent the wheel. Any personal side of things would just take up so much of your time and the more you reply the more they'd ask. A weekly q&a web chat is a good idea though as you could limit the time and easy enough to set up online that way people would get their personal approach and you'd limit the time spent.

Limiting subscribers ? Ummmm to be honest I think once you start charging they'll limit themselves. Why sell tips then limit your turnover doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Plenty of established tipsters out there that have little if any effect on the market.

Ummm price, only thing I'd say is whatever you do don't undersell yourself. Look around at what others charge and price in a similar vein. Always easy to drop prices if things don't pick up as expected but a lot harder to raise them - think of how much richer the gruss guys would be if they'd priced up realistically rather than going for the cheap approach. If something appears too cheap to be true it usually is and low prices will put off as many people as they bring in just be competitively priced against other services.

Probably missed a few points in there but need a break now :)

Graeme Dand said...


I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to comment. Thanks.

Agree I’m going a bit overboard on the blog but instead of being a betting diary, I’m using the blog to detail the business plan in my head! I’ve got nothing to hide from anyone, so I’m happy to share my views as they develop.

Trying to start this from scratch while working full-time is difficult to say the least and I also have a family life to look after, so I’ve had to expand the number of hours in my working day at the moment!

I’ll take on board all your comments and throw them in the mixing pot. The pricing point is interesting as no one has told me not to undersell myself yet. Everyone has just said don’t charge too much!

As I hinted at in the blog, all I want to do is cover my time and effort at first. I already have a full-time job and I love spending time studying form when I get time at nights, so I don’t need to ask people to pay £100 a month.

I know if I charge too little, people think I’m trying to con them but I’m hoping that the people who know me well and understand the time and effort that goes into my form studying won’t see it this way.

I think I roughly know the demand for the service and the price that people want to pay, so I just need to play about with a spreadsheet to come up with something. The more people I get in the long-run, the cheaper it could be for some people who start with me in the beginning.

My career as a Pricing Analyst may actually come in quite handy here…..

Cheers for the support.


markomar said...

Mate, personally I don`t think you need to keep lower prices for the regulars.

Regulars are the last people to whom the subscription price would make a difference.

If you have been using a tipping service for three months and it has earned you good money you will be more than happy to continue to pay the subscription and will easily tolerate a subscription fee increase as well.

It is only the new customers who are going to be sceptical and could be put off by a higher price.

But since you are a new service bascialy every customer in this initial period is going to be a new one. :)

So what I think would be best approach would be to offer lower subscription price than the competition for the first few months (but you already plann to do that) and then increase it as time goes by and you build your reputation and have a longer tips history to back you up. For the regulars as well as others.

The free month idea was a very good one in that aspect and I think it would be correct to continue with the same strategy.

Anonymous said...

Why would you try and sell tips??

If you were as good as you say you are at tipping winners you would be backing them yourself, and don't give me that you aren't in a financial position to do this!!

If you remember, you took out a loan of 15k to start this experiment.
surely if you were that good you would take that 15k and bet to £200 per point???

i will probably get a load of abuse from the mug, freeloader readers. but to be honest is this not a valid point??

Graeme Dand said...


I'm sure you belong on the Betfair Forum mate...

Quickly, I borrowed the loan from the equity in my house. That has now vanished as has the loan. At the moment, managing to pay the mortgage is difficult every month.

If you drop me an email, you can maybe give me some financial advice along with your qualifications mate.

Anyway, who said I was any good? Wait until you see today's results, I'm shit at reading horse-racing form as you think!

Have a nice day.....


Anonymous said...

"financial advice" from someone trying to sell me tips???

also qualifications?? what qualifications do you have relevant to making money trading on bf?

i'm sure there will be plenty of mugs willing to pay £20 a month for so called tips! the truth of the matter is that you cannot make good money following someone else blindly.